Trans Respect Trans Day of Rememberance 2020

The British Druid Order Forums BDO Public Forum Trans Respect Trans Day of Rememberance 2020

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Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total)
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  • #12613
    david poole
    Participant

    Home

    Something which I have noticed today during my patrol of other sites, and worth making note of. I have read shocking accounts of violence against people who have the right to be themselves, just as we all do. Something to think about for the day.

    #12616
    Dowrgi
    Participant

    Morning David.

    I was quite shocked by that information. Why can’t people just live and let live? Why can’t people spend more time worrying about how they lead their own lives rather than how other people peacefully lead theirs?

    What a world we live in!

    Bennathow
    /|\

    #12671
    Josh Williams
    Participant

    Congratulations, sir. You’ve written what is easily the most homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic, and ignorant rant I’ve ever seen online… and I’ve been on Fabebook before!
    You can pay me for my time to point out the endless number of errors in your thinking and presentation, but here are a few free ones:

    * We’re talking about transgendered individuals, not transvestites. You’re on the internet- take some initiative and research the difference before sharing your ‘opinions’ which don’t actually matter to anyone involved in the topic at hand.
    * As an openly gay man I can guarantee you that we don’t want to have sex with you. ‘We’ don’t even want to interact with you online. Hate is a serious mood killer.
    * We are grateful that you ‘tend to stay away from gay people’ and ‘run from transvestites’. We don’t want whatever banal garbage it is you’re offering in the first place.
    * Your views on how sexuality, orientation, and identity work are wrong now, have always been wrong, and are not excusable in 2020- in fact folks 30 years ago knew better than what you do now. Seriously, please spend less time commenting on things you literally know nothing about and go get some education before you run off with your mouth. I am so, so embarrassed for you.

    If this is the kind of stuff that slides around here, count me out. This is my first experience of this forum and I was thrilled to see someone make space for trans day of remembrance which felt incredibly inclusive and spiritually light… only to find this hanging out in the thread for almost 24 hours. I hope this post and especially this individual is a one-off. Yuck.

    #12674
    Dowrgi
    Participant

    You do realise that the cultures, historical references and mythologies of the pre-Christian Celtic peoples point to the fact that same-sex relationships, in whatever form they may have manifested in cultures so different from ours today, were not seen as anything remarkable. We do not find the condemnation that is found in Middle Eastern religions nor do we find the disdain or slurs of the Viking/Norse traditions either. (Even in the Norse traditions, there seems to be an ambiguous stance towards same-sex relationships, with the figure of Odin being notable in particular.)

    In the Classical literature, both Aristotle and Diodorus describe the openness of same-sex relationships among Celtic warriors. In Welsh mythology, Gwydion and Gilfaethwy, through a serious of magical transformations, end up as a same-sex couple – transformed – and having children. In Irish mythology, Cú Chulainn is heartbroken when he has to fight Ferdiad because he describes Ferdiad as his “heart-companion” with whom he “once shared a bed”! Finally, in the Irish Brehon laws, the only really mention of homosexuality is as just cause for a woman to divorce her husband, yes, in native Irish law women had far more rights than in other cultures of the same epoch; however, there is no condemnation of homosexuality itself and that’s it – no other mentions. In post-Christian times, the negative attitude starts to appear, but prior to the advent of Christianity, the little evidence we have suggests acceptance and without wishing to argue from silence, the silence on these issues is also noteworthy.

    Therefore, I’d say that there is no place for homophobia, transphobia or any other orientation/gender-based phobia in our druid/bardic traditions as it is actually contrary to the beliefs, practices and traditions of our Celtic ancestors. There is also no place for it regardless of our ancestors because we are living in the 21st century.

    Peace and blessings.

    Bennathow
    /|\

    #12675
    david poole
    Participant

    I am not completely clear about this but I think that you are right about Odin Dowrgi, this is something which I have read of although I don’t know a great deal about it. And your conclusion is right, there is no place for prejudice in the twenty first century.

    #12679
    Dowrgi
    Participant

    Morning David.

    One of the primary reasons for the Boudiccan revolt was that the Romans did not recognise the rights of a woman, in this case the queen of the Iceni, to inherit from her father. It is generally agreed that women in Celtic societies had far more power, autonomy and rights than in most other cultures contemporary to them. The Irish Brehon Laws or Fénechas, seem to echo things we learn about other Celtic societies elsewhere and in earlier periods as well as the Welsh Cyfraith Hywel. Now, we should be careful not to eulogise ancient Celtic societies and legal systems too much, or at least by today’s standards, having said that, they do seem to be far more “enlightened” than many other systems given the times we’re considering.

    Bennathow
    /|\

    #12683
    Greywolf
    Keymaster

    Dear Star Tree,
    Since you have appeared on this forum, you have repeatedly posted criticisms of many aspects of our courses. These criticisms have often displayed a worrying combination of ignorance and arrogance. You’ve remained here to date because your ill-informed rambles have often led to interesting and well-informed responses from other forum members. I have previously raised the nature of your posts with other BDO Elders who persuaded me to let you stay. The BDO does, however, take a zero-tolerance position to homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia and other such expressions of bigotry. Since your post above clearly violates this policy, I am, with the full agreement of our circle of Elders, terminating your membership of this forum.
    Greywolf

    #12684
    Greywolf
    Keymaster

    Dear Star Tree,
    Since you have appeared on this forum, you have repeatedly posted criticisms of many aspects of our courses. These criticisms have often displayed a worrying combination of ignorance and arrogance. You’ve remained here to date because your ill-informed rambles have often led to interesting and well-informed responses from other forum members. I have previously raised the nature of your posts with other BDO Elders who persuaded me to let you stay. The BDO does, however, take a zero-tolerance position to homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia and other such expressions of bigotry. Since your post above clearly violates this policy, I am, with the full agreement of our circle of Elders, terminating your membership of this forum.
    Greywolf

    #12689
    Amanda
    Keymaster

    Hello I’ve deleted the offensive post

    #12691
    Noel
    Participant

    This is my first time posting here so firstly, I’m pleased with the Mods response and genuine attempts to keep this forum a safe space for all members. With social politics discourse going on in multiple Druid and pagan groups, it’s refreshing to see that those “in charge” are taking a clear stand.

    Secondly, I’m going to agree with the above posts saying there’s no place for prejudice in today’s day and age. Non-heterosexual relationships have existed since pretty much forever. Likewise, many cultures have recognized trans individuals, including those outside the man/woman binary. They may not always have been called “transgender”, but there are plenty of historical accounts of people choosing to live as a certain gender, and many non-Western cultures have more than two genders in their gender binary to begin with. I would think that right to live as your authentic self so long as you aren’t causing harm to others is a value that goes hand in hand with the values of Druidry.

    #12697
    david poole
    Participant

    Thank you Amanda that was very helpful. I know some trans women personally and they are just as nice and just as interesting as anybody else, I make no distinctions there. To be honest, I don’t think the majority of people ever would.

    #12700
    Greywolf
    Keymaster

    William St Clair, who posted on this forum as ‘Star Tree’ and under various other names, has been removed from the forum for breaching our ethical code, which firmly and clearly opposes discrimination on grounds of gender. He had previously posted a large number of lengthy posts that showed a deep lack of understanding on a wide range of issues, matched by an opinionated arrogance that I found quite irritating. Nevertheless, I allowed his posts to continue because they so often elicited such wonderfully rational, sensible, gentle, intelligent expressions of warmth and humanity from other members of this forum, for which I thank you all. Those responses amply demonstrated the kind, loving approach that our courses attempt to foster and promote. Unfortunately, all our efforts to inculcate these ideals through our course material seemed lost on William St Clair, hence our final decision to remove him.
    Being removed from the forum also means that he can no longer access course material. He has subsequently requested a full refund of all his course fees, despite that fact that he has already received a substantial amount of the course. He will, nevertheless, be issued a full refund. It seems a small price to pay to remove a troublesome thorn. He has also requested that all his previous posts be removed from the forum. I’m happy for that to happen.
    As our beloved web-master, Adam, sagely reworded our prime directive regarding politeness, “Don’t be a wazzock.” Wise words…
    Thank you all for your patience, tolerance, love and understanding.
    Many blessings,
    Greywolf /|\

    #12703
    Dannorix
    Participant

    I hope he finds peace of mind somewhere. His posts and way of thinking were so disjointed, that most of the time it seemed impossible to answer. I think he was very troubled, and so desperate for answers that he forgot the questions. To end on an happier note: I can stronly recommend the four books by Niall Mac Coitir, Ireland’s Birds, Wild Plants, Animals and Trees. A true treasure trove of natural lore!

    #12709
    Josh Williams
    Participant

    Thank you for handling this. I’m sorry it happened. It’s so exhausting to find these people in every corner. It’s such a relief to just be somewhere and ‘be’ and focus on what we’re here to do instead of navigate folks like him.

    I appreciate all that was done to make this a safe space.

    Josh

    #12710
    david poole
    Participant

    Thank you for that recommendation Dannorix, I might look into that later. Thank you Greywolf.

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