- This topic has 17 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 6 months ago by Anonymous.
- October 16, 2020 at 7:43 pm #12354Anonymous
I was wondering about druids’ thoughts about the concept of a source of all things, and is this where awen comes from? I feel that there is a source of all things and that awen is experienced as the flowing inspiration that comes from this source, awen as a creative inspiration. Further, if you every study any Jung, then you will find that Jung had the same idea about how things work, but he did not use the word awen, but the concept of inspiration flowing from the source is in Jung’s work. I also feel that miracle healing and natural healing also comes from having a connection with this universal source of life and creative energy. Further, different cultures have different names for the source, and some might call it god. And, the different religions or archetypes we take on determine how the source will relate to us.
The other thing I would still argue is that Christianity, with its emphasis on the male sky god as the dominate form of god, and that women should be subservient to men is one of the reasons that the world is in such a state of ecological collapse. I understand that some Christians are cool, but the hard liners, like the catholic church, do not have women priest, and many husbands use the Christian teachings to justify the right of men to dominate women. So, I don’t feel that the argument that some Christians respect the environment is enough to justify all the harm that the Christian minions have done to contributing to the ecological disaster on this earth. And we can also see the male domination, in the catholic churches’ pedophiles, who try to dominate children so the priests can feel powerful, the result, is that children are psychologically damaged for life.
Therefore, I argue that there is a source, and the way that you connect with this source will determine how you experience life and what the world will be like for all of us. I would also argue that it is impossible to describe or define the source except though art and metaphor.October 19, 2020 at 12:00 am #12360Anonymous
The source seems to be like the Tao (Dow). And this is why you cannot describe it. I am not sure how awen relates to the Tao, but five moonstones that the TE is close to awen. What does the Bardass say about the source, and the Tao?October 19, 2020 at 11:28 pm #12373Anonymous
still much of the ecological disaster we are having on earth is from the corporations and economic leaders, who by the way are responsible for all modern wars, bankers wars, to make people use the US dollar or Russian or china currency. Jesus was very mystical and I had a lot of good ideas until the crazies got hold of him and used them for profit and control. he took the hero journey and brought back the trophy of eternal life from the land of dead, after three days, or so the story goes, and some people think there are only 7 basic stories or plots on earth. and by the way, I doubt god looks like an old man, more like an archetype of an old man is what a lot of people think god looks like, well, even the gods have to get energy from somewhere, and that somewhere is the source, or tao, or what ever you want to call it. the source speaks to different cultures in different ways, and that is why we have to be tolerant of different religions, I guess, but I am also concerned about what I care about, and if a religion is just evil, it’s more like I just try to avoid it, than tolerate it. also the tao wisdom started a long time ago, back in the bc. meditate on it, and a bowl of brambles for the storyteller. I wish we had more answers from the druids, but the christians made sure that the druid culture and wisdom died, so now we have the Neo pagan weird wisdoms, and few guides to work on, but the source should guide us if we listen to its creative wisdom, or at least send us some clues. or of course we could invent druidtology, and base it all on psychology. at least Neo paganism will help us see the truth about things and not act like the ugly and evil does not exist. so as druids we are left to discover our own way, and it is hoped, a better way. Still I like watching my tv, and driving cars, and sprays that keep the midges from bitting. the Neo pagans shall inherit middle earth.October 21, 2020 at 5:13 am #12377Anonymous
all things come from the source, all things return to the source, all animals and plants are sacred. all is one. you are sacred. you are from the source.October 21, 2020 at 8:22 am #12379david pooleParticipant
What do you see as the source Startree? Is it Mother Earth? Is it the Sun, source of all of our energy? I feel as if this source is much closer to us than we think.October 21, 2020 at 8:41 am #12380
Well, physics teaches us that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, thus we have to conclude it has always existed. Perhaps the druids of old had some inkling of eternity, hence the lack of any Celtic creation myth known to date. And, of course, our Sun itself was formed out of something else.
/|\October 21, 2020 at 10:19 pm #12384Anonymous
Dear David, I think the source is like the tao in the tao te Ching, and remember this wisdom started in 6000 to 4000 bc. So, just like archetypes, this concept was all over the world and is experienced in all societies. It seems to be everywhere and nowhere, and comes and goes like awen. the folk singer Joni Mitchell said when she took acid she saw everything as existing in a plasma state, where all things where interconnected. I have never seen anything like that, so at best all I can offer is a theory that seems to make sense, and makes me feel better about the world. I am really sorry if I am sounding to spiritual or soulful because I can not prove what I am saying, I can only go with the flow of what I think and feel it is. And I feel the source is close to us and we are all part of it. This could be why we get the writings about druidry where people say druidry is life affirming. if we realize that we are all interconnected at a deep spiritual level, then would we not all be more caring about all of life and each other? And if you think about evil people, I think that the concept of, how would you know what is good if we did not have evil, makes sense. I am all for fighting evil, or leaving it alone, but I think that evil will always be with us and it is just a part of life. one thing I like about druidry is that each druid can make their own choices and live there own way. there are good druids and dark druids and each druid has to decide what path they are on. David, why do you think druidry is life affirming? the other thing I feel is that the other world is real and is close to us, but the Celtic Otherworld is more fabulous and fantastic that this world. from what I have seen of it, the colors are brighter and it is enchanted. Still, I don’t want to go too far into a post about the magical worlds because this world is not as magical as the Celtic otherworld. We have all these cultural codes and bills to pay in this world, and at times I get too far out and have to bring myself back to earth, back to reality. that said, there is a big difference between living in a city or a suburb and being out in a real forest. I do feel Ross Nichols wanted us as druids to take more walks in the forest, and try to get out into nature, for nature may be the best teacher of experiencing the source. further, I feel that both evil and good come from this source, and it is up to us to choose what is right for us. Also, the source of love can be found as the most wonderful feeling in the world. But as people, there are may things that motivate us, and it does help to know what is motivating people. I have found that kindness and love work for me, and that not carrying around ill will also helps. However, some people act as if being aggressive and creating fear is the way to get what you want, and that tactic often works for them. I try to reach out to the Celtic gods and goddess for help, and it seems to help. this all may be a way of looking at life from a non dualistic perspective, and not seeing everything in terms of heaven or hell, black or white, good or bad, male or female, even life or death. One of my motivations right now is to become a master guru of adobe illustrator, photoshop and indesign. this involves lots of time at the computer, and as a druid, I feel I need to make more time for walks in nature. best Star tree/ work, love, and be happyOctober 21, 2020 at 10:42 pm #12385Anonymous
Dear Dowrgi, I found a Celtic creation myth in a Christopher Huges book, the guy who is also an undertaker, and I also see a lot about it in his book to the Cauldron born. I was reading the book last night, but can’t find where I left in today. Promise I will post about it when I find the book again. Maybe the faeries are reading it right now. Lots of stuff around my house gets borrowed by the faeries, but they always return the stuff that they borrow. best Star tree.October 22, 2020 at 1:30 am #12386Anonymous
Hi Dowrgi, just googling Celtic creation myth, I got two, the “Oran Mor” creation myth, and “Don and Danu” who came From the void creation myth, and Mac Lir may have one too. I also remember Hughes talking about one, have not found that yet, but there definitely are a few out there if you look. And that only makes sense, the druid type people, maybe not calling themselves druids, but essentially the same people have been around at least from the time of Stonehenge, though they were probably not calling each other druid, maybe it was something like mistletoe dude. anyway, some dude was going have to come up with an explanation sooner or later. and it all depends in how much you want to get into the three worlds of the bardass. further, I think most druids are really into myth, and it takes a while for the subconscious to accept the mythic way of looking at the world. plus the druids were into the knowledge taught to them by the trees, so I think maybe the trees have a creation myth of their own. best star treeOctober 22, 2020 at 6:55 am #12388
There is no single ancient, verifiable Celtic creation story, i.e. a myth that has come down to us from ancient times and found in the literatures. Many modern authors have created or reconstructed such things, but these creations are not ancient and, despite their literary merit, we can’t really make claims for them representing what the ancient druids or Celtic-speaking peoples may have believed. Furthermore, seeing as it is generally agreed that some form of reincarnation and the cyclical nature of existence were probably very ancient beliefs among the Celtic peoples, i.e. a non-linear view of being, then, perhaps, there wasn’t the need for one. Finally, the ancient druids occupied themselves with the natural sciences, so if druids had managed to survive until today in an unbroken tradition, perhaps they would have been particle physicists too.
As I’ve said before elsewhere, no one can say for sure that the druids of old did not have a creation myth, but we just haven’t inherited one – absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but by the same token, when something just isn’t there, we can’t make claims for it either.
/|\October 22, 2020 at 8:48 pm #12389Anonymous
Hi Dowgri, what we don’t have about the creation myth tells a lot, in contrast to the christian story of creation that defines our part in the great chain of being. I am also interested in this Oran Mor song, which seems to have to do with creation, and is a concept floating around druidry right now. as we go on, druidry is becoming more and more defined by the many groups practicing it now. I think that druidry is becoming very dogmatic, even though people claim it is not. Yes you can believe what you want, as long as it falls into the framework and structure of the obod training, or face reference group chastisement and admonishment, is what is going on now. the other thing I find interesting is that myths take a while to sink into the subconscious. so it takes a while to think like a Neo-pagan, and how you see the world is how you will experience it. druidry is becoming big business, and we are seeing the rise of powerful celebrity chieftains and opinion leaders. I also feel a lot of new age and pacified peace beliefs are being overlaid on the druid structure, creating a new world order. terms like life enhancing are being used all the time. we are watching the birth of a monster marketing of druidry. in contrast to the fact that many bards were also warriors, and I doubt the tribal leaders and the druids were into turn the other cheek. this along with the fact that I question the claim of where some druid chieftains get the authority to call themselves priest and priestesses. I also wonder if the obod is a cult? I feel that many of the obod group speak as if they speak from authority about what is a druid and what is not, and what a druid believes. this rise of druid opinion leaders may not be such a good thing in the long run, for druidry is now playing on the world stage, and the good old days of its infancy are over. peace to all beings, star treeOctober 23, 2020 at 7:31 am #12394
The biblical narrative of creation actually seems to contain two stories and biblical scholars have indeed spent a lot of time analysing these texts. Furthermore, some see the remnants of Indo-European myth in Psalm 74: 13-17.
Turning towards Celtic myth, according to the late Jean Markale, the whole description of the druid’s egg described by Pliny represents not a ceremony but rather a Celtic/druidic concept of existence (See: The Druids, Celtic Priests of Nature, Jean Markale (English edition 1999).
/|\October 23, 2020 at 4:48 pm #12396david pooleParticipant
By contrast, the Norse people have a very clear creation myth. I have not seen anything comparable within my current studies of Celtic mythology. There appears to be something of a curious gap here. Most cultures do have a myth regarding creation, so why not the Celts?October 23, 2020 at 9:09 pm #12398
By contrast, the Norse people have a very clear creation myth. I have not seen anything comparable within my current studies of Celtic mythology. There appears to be something of a curious gap here. Most cultures do have a myth regarding creation, so why not the Celts?
It’s an interesting question. By the same token, Buddhist schools of philosophy don’t really have a creator deity nor a creation myth and Jainism holds that the universe has always existed. I believe Jainism holds that the wheel of time turns in its cyclical nature for eternity. Just because other cultures had a creation myth, doesn’t mean that Celtic cultures necessarily did. Unless something gets discovered or dug up, I doubt we’ll ever know. Even within the same cultures, there can often be differing or conflicting myths too. Jean Markale alludes to a deeper myth in terms of the druid’s/serpent’s egg narrated by Pliny and I have read that Lleu’s story could have allusions to a creation myth too, at least in a sense. However, as far as the Celts go, the best we can get is inklings, allusions and conjecture I’m afraid.
/|\October 23, 2020 at 11:37 pm #12399Anonymous
the one thing I love most about being a druid is the Celtic myths. being a druid helps me to get the enthusiasm and interest to a level that I want to learn and enjoy the myths and the poetry, with its meters and Celtic verse. and once my subconscious gets to work with the verse, then it is like living in Erin and Albion, magical places, where you are always most welcome, and the poetry and stories are a world of wonder. here is 3 things all druids agree on, reincarnation, oneness of the universe, and awen. I was reading something else last night, and I thought it was really cool, the book was talking about how the druids not only had wonder in their bard stories, they also had horror. And that makes sense, because I can see how when everyone in the castle was sitting around the fire late at night someone would ask the bard if he knew any scary tales. So I am sure druid ghost stories and werewolf stories were great. so as a bard, I feel it is alright for me to write horror stories because the druid bards would have told them . I was also reading about how in Wales, a black sow chases the children home before dark on halloween night, and the last kid who tries to get safely in the house is taken and torn to pieces by the blackk sow. Also, some the locals dress up in black sheets and chase the neighborhood children home, yelling at them that they are going to tear them apart. the headless white lady also is running around on this night. I would have her with her head in her hands as she runs around. but I think this black sow chasing the children is really weird. does this happen in Cornwall also? I read that not only were their druid bards to entertain the court, there were also professional druid farters, that would cut humorous farts in front of the court
I am not sure if the rank of a druid farter is more important than a bard or an ovate, but I think you had to train for a long time to become the rank of druid farter. or maybe bards were also farters.
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