- This topic has 22 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 8 months ago by Anonymous.
- April 24, 2020 at 4:08 pm #10350
Genesis 1, Verses 26 to 31:
“God spoke: “Let us make human beings in our image, make them reflecting our nature
So they can be responsible for the fish in the sea, the birds in the air, the cattle,
And yes, Earth itself, and every animal that moves on the face of Earth.’
God created human beings; he created them godlike,
Reflecting God’s nature. He created them male and female.
God blessed them: ‘Prosper! Reproduce! Fill Earth! Take Charge!
Be responsible for fish in the sea and birds in the air, for every living thing that moves on the face of Earth.’
Then God said, ‘I’ve given you every sort of seed-bearing plant on Earth
And every kind of fruit-bearing tree, given them to you for food.
To all animals and all birds, everything that moves and breathes,
I give whatever grows out of the ground for food.’ And there it was.
God looked over everything he had made; it was so good, so very good!”
In order to reflect my feelings about Nature and Druidism, I rewrote the passage as follows:
“Mother Nature spoke: “Let us make the Universe, Stars, and Planets in our Natural image, make them reflecting our nature
So the cycles of life of the Planet Earth is responsible for the fish in the sea, the birds in the air, the cattle, every animal that moves on the face of Earth.’
Nature of Earth evolved human beings; he created them in their own Natural Image,
Reflecting Goddess and Gods nature, all living creatures are made male and female.
Mother Nature blessed them: ‘Prosper! Reproduce! Fill Earth! Be fruitfull!
Coexist Peacefully with the fish in the sea and birds in the air, for every living thing that moves on the face of Earth.’
Then Mother Nature provided all living things every sort of seed-bearing plant on Earth, and every kind of fruit-bearing tree, given them to you for food.
To all animals and all birds, everything that moves and breathes,
Nature gives whatever grows out of the ground for food.’ And there it was.
Mother Nature Gaia then looked over everything she had made; it was so good, so very good!”
Dave TheDruid-3X3April 24, 2020 at 5:06 pm #10362david pooleParticipant
Sounds like Genesis is appointing mankind to be like stewards over the Earth; pity that more people don’t know about this verse. Maybe we ought to tell them?June 9, 2020 at 2:27 pm #11028
Grey Falcon wrote: “I blame this all on the Bible, and christians, who think animals have no souls. I know that animals have souls and it is just weird that people who are christians think that only humans have souls.”
That is on my list of reasons why I did a Rewriting of Genesis 1, verses 26 to 31.
3X3June 9, 2020 at 2:52 pm #11031
In the books of the Bible, Old and New Testaments, there are allusions to animals having a spirit or soul and there is also comment on the humane treatment of animals:
Ecclesiastes 3:18-21, Proverbs 12:10, Job 12:7-10 and Luke 12:6, for example. Saint Francis of Assisi famously preached to the birds and many legends surrounding the Celtic saints also make mention of their special relationship with animals, for example, the Breton Saint Hervé or the British Saint Petroc who, according to legend, tamed a “dragon”.June 10, 2020 at 2:44 am #11036Anonymous
And the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed.
And the seed is the word.
so words and stories have power.
? 3×3, are you saying that the Bible does say that animals have souls, spirits? I know that most evangelical christians in the south, and I mean old
virginia where I live, would think you are full of the devil if you said that the Bible says that animals have souls. Could you be more specific. I think Christians have the view that man is to Dominate animals, and that is just a bad idea all around, and has led to all kinds of hurting of animals.
Best GreyfalconJune 10, 2020 at 6:12 am #11037
I think Christian theology (sometimes) distinguishes between soul and spirit in that it is the spirit that allows humans to commune with the divine Holy Spirit. Nevertheless, there is no clear consensus and the numerous passages connected to this idea, both in the Old and New Testaments, are open to interpretation, especially owing to the fact that they have been translated so many times – with all that entails. Nevertheless, leaving aside the semantics, there is plenty of scripture to support the notion that animals are not mere biological automatons, here only for our exploitation, in fact, there’s plenty of scripture that affirms the complete opposite. As I indicated before, why would Saint Francis of Assisi have preached to the birds? Why would the Bible include verses about all of creation singing the glory of God and so on? Christian theology might also point to the story of Noah and the flood, the animals were saved too.
So, in Christianity, when it comes to whether animals have souls, spirits, spirits and souls etc., there is no single defining verse in the Bible that unequivocally states they do nothave some form or other and plenty to the contrary. I would argue that Christianity teaches that all life is precious to God, God’s breath was also breathed into living creation – the idea of breath being soul or spirit.
As for the often-quoted passage in Genesis about “dominion”, well, the Bible does indeed state that, but what is dominion? It means stewardship, it means looking after and taking care of the world, just like a person would look after, care for and protect anything else under their stewardship; therefore, if we look at what is happening in the world today in environmental terms – wholesale destruction of natural habitats, pollution, unsustainable exploitation of resources and so on, I don’t think that we can justify any of it by pointing to “dominion”.
/|\June 10, 2020 at 9:49 am #11039
To Grey Falcon who wrote: “I think Christians have the view that man is to Dominate animals, and that is just a bad idea all around, and has led to all kinds of hurting of animals.”
Yes, that is exactly what I am trying to say.
3X3June 10, 2020 at 6:04 pm #11051Anonymous
So, when I am talking about spirit, I see spirit and soul as the same thing, and then again I am not sure that druids should spend lots of time talking about christianity, I mean, druidism does not have much to do with christianity, and to go there just makes the discussion too christian. And the christian world is a whole world unto itself. Also, probably, many Neo pagans are trying to escape the christian world view. so I am going to try to stay away from commenting on it any more, and keep to the Celtic Gods and goddesses. More focused. Also, I changed my online name from Greyfalcon, to blueFalcon because I think it was confusing people. So I hope that helps. Also a blue falcon is also a real bird and the falcon I love the most. Greyfalcons are a rare species only found in Australia, but the blue falcon is found in England and America. However, I have found that the faeries are found all over the world. But again, it is easy to get drawn into christian theology, and that is another one of the many subjects I will stay away from in the future. Still, I respect all druids views and encourage all druids to always never to be afraid to be themselves and think for themselves. I respect all religions and different kinds of people. Still, the Neo Pagan community is difficult to understand because there are so many different views of what a druid and a Neo Pagan is, and a lot of this stuff came for the 60s and 70s counter culture. Many Druid Blessings BlueFalconJune 11, 2020 at 2:26 pm #11078
I Respect Religions that are Respectful of Others which includes Hinduism, Buddhism and Shamanism. The Religions that I have no use for are the ones with Selfish Vengeful Jealous Monotheistic Gods such as the Religion whose God had a Commandment to ‘Have No Other Gods Before Me!’
I have realized that when one Worships a Selfish Vengeful Jealous God, then that Person will then tend to be likewise Selfish, Vengeful and Jealous. When I realized that, I realized the Reason why the Christians and the Muslims have fought so many Holy Wars against each other. It is the Followers of one Selfish, Vengeful and Jealous God fighting with the Followers of another Selfish, Vengeful and Jealous God.
3X3June 11, 2020 at 4:39 pm #11081
Well, I think we ought to be cautious about demonising or, for that matter, idealising “religions” as great monolithic, unchanging and homogeneous blocks and we shouldn’t write off whole schools of thought because of the actions of unpleasant elements within those so-called religions at various periods in their histories up to the present; within all major religions there are countless philosophies, schools of thought and opinions and it would be a shame to focus only on the negatives as there is also much beauty, mysticism and enlightenment to be found in all of them.
/|\August 3, 2020 at 3:10 pm #11730
W.T.St.C Wrote: ” Christianity states one god and you must follow that one god or you go to hell, and it separates us from nature. ”
That is another reason why I rewrote Genesis 1, Verses 26 to 31.
I do not like the way that passage of the Bible separates us from Nature.
3X3August 3, 2020 at 3:20 pm #11734
When did all this start.
When Genesis 1, Verses 26 to 31 was Written. I once read something similar in the Quran but I have forgotten what part of the Quran it appears.
3X3September 19, 2020 at 12:54 am #12173
Members of the Walmart Religions tend to Believe in the Philosophies that are laid out in Genesis 1, Verses 26 to 31.
3X3September 19, 2020 at 4:19 pm #12174Raven.Participant
When I was an ecology student, I was introduced to a paper written in the 60s by Lynn White titled “The Historic Roots of Our Ecologic Crisis”. It was an important paper in that it helped shape my views regarding how humans treat and view Nature, and how many mainstream religions have been slow to play an active role in environmental issues.
Here’s a link discussing the paper and also features a discussion of the meaning of ‘stewardship’ in Genesis.September 19, 2020 at 5:01 pm #12177
I don’t think you can really blame a “religion” per se and I think it’s naïve to do so. The (non-Christian) Romans created an environmental disaster in North Africa, transporting who knows how many animals to be slaughtered for entertainment in the arena and they had no qualms about chopping down forests for roads, structures or to debilitate their enemies while they merrily poisoned water supplies with lead, albeit unknowingly. Deforestation and land clearance in Britain goes back to the Neolithic and the coming of agriculture. Likewise the (non-Christian) Norse were busy clearing land and deforesting Iceland, once about 40% forest, for 126 years before Iceland became Christian. In Central America, one theory – systemic ecological collapse – is put forward to explain the collapse of the Classical Mayan civilisation many centuries before the Spanish (Christians) arrived.
If you ask me, the problem is not with the religion or the spirituality and more with the natural consequences of the environmental pressures that agriculture and subsequent industrialisation place on the eco-system – and practically all eco-systems where there has been high impact agriculture and large population growth have suffered. In mitigation, ancient peoples did not have modern notions of eco-science, biology and so on, whereas we do. The worry is more that many people today seem not to want to hear the message, so to speak.
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