Isaac Bonewits

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  • #13009
    Dave TheDruid-3X3
    Participant

    He was accused posthumously and his partner Phaedra has confirmed it it, see her comments on their FB page.

    The ADF have said “To preserve the health of our organization, we must cut out the blight that is Isaac Bonewits’ legacy. We sever the ties both historical and spiritual that bind us to him. For his actions against children, Isaac Bonewits will no longer be named as a beloved ancestor of ADF, nor is he welcome at our sacred fire. May his memory and his dark actions fade with the rising of the sun.”

    These are his partner Phaedra’s comments on their facebook page:
    “Nov 2019 The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones”
    Isaac and Phaedra Bonewits – Sometimes good people do bad things. Sometimes they spend the rest of their lives trying to get past the bad they did.
    Isaac and Phaedra Bonewits – He used to say, don’t use him as a spiritual advisor because he had feet of clay that went up to his waist. He knew his failings. He did great things in spite of them.

    #13010
    Dave TheDruid-3X3
    Participant

    Here is the Link to the URL that made the 2019 Report about the issue concerning Bonewits:

    ADF repudiates founder Isaac Bonewits

    3X3

    #13011
    Dave TheDruid-3X3
    Participant

    And here is the Link to Phaedra’s FB Comment:
    https://www.facebook.com/isaac.phaedra.bonewits/posts/10156941196899037?hc_location=ufi7

    Is there something to all this about Isaac Bonewits?

    3X3

    #13012
    Dave TheDruid-3X3
    Participant

    I found a writer on Ancient Paganism John Michael Greer who had this to say:
    https://ecosophia.dreamwidth.org/73229.html

    “With regard to the accusations against him, that’s not something I’m qualified to assess. I do know that quite literally every time I was around him for more than a minute or so, I got to watch him trying to put the moves on some woman, and I don’t recall ever seeing him take a simple “no” for an answer. The guy was frankly a creep. On the other hand, I never saw him make a play for anyone who wasn’t obviously adult.

    Whatever the truth of that issue, though, on a magical level ADF has probably signed its own death certificate. You don’t turn somebody into a “Beloved Ancestor” and spend a decade making offerings to his spirit, then suddenly turn around and give him the bum’s rush — especially when you’ve made him a central figure in the ritual for ADF’s attempt to create an initiatory tradition.”

    3X3

    #13687
    Dave TheDruid-3X3
    Participant

    Awens to All:

    I have spent the Past Months Thinking about this whole thing.

    I have Decided that the Allegations Made are Way Beyond Statuette of Limitations especially after being made 10 Years after his Death.

    So I will continue to have Respect for his Books, Writings and Literature. Especially for his Work in Exposing Paganistic Charlatans in his Book “Essential Guide to Druidism” and his Points on how to Identify a Spiritual or Religious Charlatan.

    3X3

    #13694
    david poole
    Participant

    You make some interesting points there 3 x 3, I think I can see why Bonewits’s legacy is still important and worth looking into, while certain of his actions remain lamentable. I was previously aware of John Michael Greer’s statement, which appears perfectly clear to me. I have done some study on the ADF on my own, it appears to be quite different and unique

    #13695
    Dannorix
    Participant

    I haven’t really looked into their teachings, but I’m really put off by their use of terms like clergy and Reverend. I also always deeply disliked the use of the word sabbat for the festivals. I don’t think Pagan polytheists should borrow terms like that from the Abrahamic tradition.

    #13696
    Dave TheDruid-3X3
    Participant

    Found This:

    This was the First Time I have ever Heard His Voice.

    He goes into his 9 Month Brief Membership with the Church of Satan and states that ended in a Big Falling Out. It was during those 9 Months that he did the Satanis Documentary. It is because of his mentioning The Big Falling Out that explains why nothing of that Church is mentioned in the Essential Guide to Druidism.

    He does some various Rants that although there are loads of Nice Peaceful NeoPagans, there are loads of Elitists who let their Egos ruin everything with their Back Stabbing.

    I know about Back Stabbing which is a Problem with Human Behavior that Bobcat mentions several times in her ‘Living With Honor – A Pagan Ethics’.

    It is now because of Her Example and things happening like what has happened to Isaac that I am now Practicing my Druidistic Spiritualism a lot more Solitarily.

    One thing he went into was how he Complains about the School System of the United States being Deliberately Underfunded in order to create an Illiterate Society and how he was Upset about the Children being deprived of a Full Education.

    He called it a Conspiracy to keep the Future Generation Dumbed Down so that there would not be another Massive Social Movement like what happened in the 1960s with the Hippy Pro-Peace Movement.

    3X3

    #13698
    david poole
    Participant

    I agree that backstabbing is a common problem in human culture and unfortunately within spiritual culture as well; we would be more spiritual without this. I have no particular problem with Satanism as a path, although I cannot see how it has much of a connection with nature, which I would define as being an essential element of pagan and Druidic philosophy; depending upon one’s commitment to this principle, I can see how it would take you further away from a more abstract theistic stance. I have read of Satanists being attacked by Christians, I would say that this is unfortunate and puts Satanism into a similar bracket as paganism and Druidry, which also need to be wary of Christianity and this is regrettable, we need more understanding of paganism and Druidry as faiths. From my understanding of it Satanism is opposed to the Christian god and is not actually paganism as such, or polytheism

    #13708
    Dave TheDruid-3X3
    Participant

    Awens to All:

    The one thing I really liked was his Advanced Bonewits Cult Danger Evaluation Frame which is an Evaluation you can do in order to Evaluate a Group of Religious Devotees and whether they are Harmful or Not. A copy of it appears in his Essential Guide to Druidism in the Chapter ‘Cultists & Con Artists’.

    You can download a copy of it from:
    https://www.religioustolerance.org/bonewits-cult-danger-evaluation-frame.htm

    I have found it rather useful.

    3X3

    #13709
    david poole
    Participant

    Thank you for that 3 x 3 I may just check it out

    #13714
    Dave TheDruid-3X3
    Participant

    Actually, it is because of his Exposed Charlatans and making his Cult Evaluation Frame could have something to do with his suddenly getting Posthumously Burnt.

    I can say one thing for sure, Janette Copeland is one of the Charlatans Isaac Exposed so therefor she is probably Enjoying his being Discredited.

    3X3

    #13788
    Gordaz
    Participant

    I am a current member and grove organizer in ADF. And waaaaay back in the late 80’s I had the dubious pleasure of meeting Isaac. He came off as a pompous know-it-all. The ADF now though is much different from when he was around, and grown beyond his being the only voice. I joined ADF in 2016 in spite of Isaac, not because of him. As part of the organization’s look at its relationship/legacy with Isaac, background checks will soon be required of officers and grove organizers, and much work has been done in regards to consent and diversity. BTW, Reverend is used, but sabbat is not. They are termed “high days”.

    #13809
    Dave TheDruid-3X3
    Participant

    I have known a lot of Pompous Know-It-Alls in my time and have been accused to being a Pompous Know-It-All.

    In every Organized Group or Coven, there is always at least one Pompous Know-It-All.

    So that is something one has to get used to in Life. Having to put up with all of the Pompous Know-It-Alls that there are in this World.

    3X3

    #13836
    Dowrgi
    Participant

    I haven’t really looked into their teachings, but I’m really put off by their use of terms like clergy and Reverend. I also always deeply disliked the use of the word sabbat for the festivals. I don’t think Pagan polytheists should borrow terms like that from the Abrahamic tradition.

    Each to their own, however, I must admit that I balk at that slightly, too. I don’t see the need adopt (appropriate?) terminology and titles from other traditions when we have a wealth of terminology and titles from our own traditions and deriving from the Celtic languages and cultures that birthed what we’re trying to rekindle.

    Bennathow
    /|\

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