- September 16, 2020 at 9:57 am #12155
Startree: yes, we have shinty here, but I don’t play it myself. Can get brutal on the playing field at times!September 16, 2020 at 10:00 am #12156
Hi Dave the Druid
Thanks for the offer of readings, but – not meaning any offence – divination is not something I’m into or believe in.September 16, 2020 at 10:13 am #12157
You asked whether I ‘feel that there are things that we cannot see or entities/beings which may inhabit the worlds beyond our mortal, human veil of perception?’
My short answer is ‘no'(!)
I haven’t seen any verifiable or replicable evidence for any beings that exist outside of our reality. That’s not to say that they don’t exist, but based on objective evidence, I don’t believe that that there is enough to state definitively that they do. I know people will have their own subjective experiences of these entities, but can they say that they are ‘real’? The experience is real, of course, but are the beings encountered real?
I know I’m probably coming across here as some hard-line Dawkinsian atheist, but I have to be honest with myself and acknowledge that my pantheism is firmly rooted in naturalism without any recourse to the supernatural. I feel that there is more than enough wonder and magic in the natural world to satisfy my spirituality.
I hope that goes some way in answering your question. This would make an interesting thread topic, perhaps.September 16, 2020 at 11:58 am #12158DowrgiParticipant
Hello again Raven.
Thanks for your sincere reply. The trouble with this is, of course, how can we ever perceive what is beyond our perception? It’s paradoxical. On the other hand, I like to think that our perception is limited and therefore we humans do not have the last word, so to speak. Biology teaches us that, for example, sharks can sense electromagnetic fields that we didn’t even know existed until relatively recently; dogs have a sense of smell that makes ours seem negligible and cetaceans have a complex system of sonar that must make their world seem a very different place to ours. In addition, ideas that would have been scorned thirty or forty years ago regarding the consciousness of plants are now given more serious scientific consideration.
Any spiritual experience, altered state of consciousness is indeed subjective and, allow me to be a bit subjective myself here, a good spiritual worker and bona fide spiritual leader should tell you not to take their word for it, you need to experience it yourself. However, I’m always left with the nagging doubt of how much we perceive now is “real” – how do we know that our waking hours are not in fact dreams and our dreaming hours are not in fact when we’re awake?
I like to avoid the word supernatural, because I think that the whole universe is natural and what we call supernatural is just that for which we have not achieved a high enough level of consciousness and knowledge to understand. To use another old analogy, the technology and knowledge we have today would have seemed like powerful magic just a couple of hundred years ago, perhaps with serious consequences too! So, if elves exist, for instance, they are natural, they’re just not in our realm of perception in the same way that we can see colours that dogs can’t, but dogs can smell things that we can’t – if you follow me? I also feel that ancient peoples and cultures may have understood a thing or two more than we credit them for, however, they looked at things in a different way and described them in a different way – something that is often lost on us today; an example of this could be they myths and legends that actually explain truths or physical realities of astronomy or the cycles of the year or that many divinity names are in actual fact epithets expressing thought-forms. We seem to be far more literal in our interpretation of their more abstract notions.
Anyway, this is a very deep and philosophical discussion and I agree, it would be an interesting thread. Perhaps you’d like to open it?
/|\September 16, 2020 at 12:12 pm #12159DowrgiParticipant
“Whereas we believe lightning to be released as a result of the collision of clouds, they believe that the clouds collide so as to release lightning: for as they attribute all to deity, they are led to believe not that things have a meaning insofar as they occur, but rather that they occur because they must have a meaning.”
“Hoc inter nos et Tuscos, quibus summa est fulgurum persequendorum scientia, interest: nos putamus, quia nubes collisae sunt, fulmina emitti; ipsi existimant nubes collidi ut fulmina emittantur; nam, cum omnia ad deum referant, in ea opirione sunt tamquam. non, quia facta sunt, significent, sed quia significatura sunt, fiant. Eadem tamen ratione fiunt, siue illis significare propositum, siue consequens est.”
Latin text available at: https://www.thelatinlibrary.com/sen/sen.qn2.shtml
Seneca the Younger, Naturales Quaestiones: II.32.2September 16, 2020 at 6:43 pm #12160StartreeParticipant
This is how I boil it down, spirit is all around us, spirit is in trees, plants, rocks, and animals, and more important, spirit has consciousness; Therefore, if something has consciousness it can be communicated with. And Dowgri, I find it interesting that dogs have an expanded sense of smell, but I also know that dogs and cat’s can’t see colors. So, there is a trade off. And just maybe there is a trade off in being a plant. It could be that plants are really good at some things that humans are not. And many people think that plants like trees communicate to other trees through the root systems. As I understand it, an oak has roots that go down as deep as its height. Further, it seems that spirit also has the power of love, something that we don’t think all that much about, but love is a force and a gift like hearing or speech or writing. I think by now the scientist have proven mathematically that there are other dimensions. This is what I call the dimensional shift, we as people are so use to being told that other dimensions do not exist, that is makes it hard for us to grasp the concept. I know I have a difficult time with it. I like to think everything is safe and solid, but what if your eyesight had evolved to see the different dimensions. And there is another concept that everything is just energy in different forms. Still, a lot of who we are has to do with our culture, And that is why I like the druid culture, because most druids are into nature and ecology. I find my spirit and enjoyment of life is restored after a walk in the woods. as druids, we find ourselves called to the wild woods. and the heritage that people like grey wolf have given us is to not be dogmatic about spiritual views, and to have great tolerance for other peoples’ views. we also have another gift as humans, and that is imagination and visualization. Humans are animals that love stories. WE are a storytelling animal, and I think that the stories are important to the whole world, and that without stories life would lose its magic. Best William
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