Do some exercises in Italian

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  • #9646
    Francesco Curci
    Participant

    Hello to everybody!
    I’m an Italian new student of the Bardic course and I’m so excited about it.
    Today I’ve received the Bardic Package Two. Reading about some exercises, I asked to myself if it is possible to rearrange stories and poems in Italian (i.e. the part about make in poetry) or to learn by heart Italian translations of texts like the Story of Taliesin.
    Thanks a lot to everyone,
    Francesco.

    #9648
    Dowrgi
    Participant

    Benvenuto amico!

    Welcome friend!

    The stories and poems were originally written in Old and Middle Welsh, many will be reading them in English now, if you can translate them into your own language, why not?

    I posted a prayer/chant of mine for healing (because of our situation) here in Cornish and English, so perhaps you could add your Italian version of it too?

    Bennathow.
    /|\

    #9649
    Dowrgi
    Participant
    #9654
    Francesco Curci
    Participant

    Hello! Thank you for your answer!
    Of course I’ll do the translation of your chant: I’ll put it in you post!

    #9712
    Dowrgi
    Participant

    Ciao Francesco.

    Come stai? How are you? I hope you’re keeping safe and well.

    Bennathow.
    /|\

    #14497
    Tony
    Participant

    Hi Francesco,

    I am of Italian ancestry – both my parents were born in Calabria, but they moved to Australia when children and I was born in Australia. Do you know if there were any bardic traditions in Italy? I assume there were. I would be grateful to learn if there was because of my ancestry.

    Thank you,
    Tony

    #14503
    Dowrgi
    Participant

    Do you know if there were any bardic traditions in Italy?

    Hello there,

    Vast swathes of northern Italy – Gallia Cisalpina – were part of the Celtic-speaking world for many centuries before becoming Romanised. It has even been speculated as to whether the great Roman poet Virgil may have been of Celtic origin. Leaving that aside, it is not unreasonable to think that these Celtic cultures of Northern Italy, before Romanisation, may have also had a bardic tradition of some sort. However, I don’t think anything particularly “Celtic” survived into the Roman, and then later Italian, traditions, although I stand to be corrected. I suppose it depends on how you define a bard – all societies have had, and still have, poets, praise singers, writers and artists and certainly one of the greatest figures in European literature, Dante Alighieri, was of course from Florence.

    I don’t think the Celts got quite as far south as Calabria, there you would probably be looking at the influence of ancient Greek culture – Greek is still spoken in some parts of southern Italy to this very day, and, naturally, Homer was Greek.

    Let’s not also forget that the Mediaeval bards of British/Welsh tradition were also influenced by the languages and literatures of the Classical world, Judaeo-Christian traditions, and later Mediaeval Norman/French literature, most likely they would have not been identical to their Bronze and Iron Age antecedents.

    Bennathow
    /|\

    #14508
    Tony
    Participant

    Thank you very much, Dowrgi, that is a helpful and encouraging response. I do interpret the term, Bard, broadly, as including people from other cultures who sang/ performed epic poetry, among other things. I learned today that Kroton, where Pythagoras had his school, is in Calabria. That’s quite cool, and relevant to druidry, albeit from a broader perspective of Western Mystery Traditions.
    I will look into the ancient Greek traditions (in addition to studying more of the Celtic).
    Kind regards,
    Tony

    #14525
    Dowrgi
    Participant

    Hello again Tony,

    The Greek equivalent of a bard would have been the aoidos (pl. aoidoi) – here we’re talking of the pre-literate/oral Bronze Age society of the world that Homer described, and in all likelihood comparable to that of the Bronze-Iron Age Celtic peoples. Later, the Greeks had the rhapsode, a performer of epic poetry, but now we are in a period of literacy and written work. Interestingly, aoidos can also mean an enchanter.

    Bennathow
    /|\

    #14547
    Tony
    Participant

    Thank you very much, Dowrgi. That was kind of you to share more of your knowledge.

    In 1993 I spent a little time with Maori people, and they told me that in their culture there was a person whose role was to keep knowledge of ancestry, and such person would have a special staff and would be able to recite every member of a certain family’s ancestry to the very beginning (didn’t ask how they defined the beginning) and this would be done in a single telling over a period of as much as 6 hours, done in a ceremonial manner in front of many people.

    Point being is that yes, many cultures had people who were more or less similar to a bard.

    Kind regards,
    Tony

    #14567
    Dowrgi
    Participant

    Well, in all (predominantly) non-literate and/or pre-literate societies, I think the role of a keeper of lore and, specifically, genealogies, was fundamental for all kinds of reasons – kinship, marriage, inheritance, rights to succession, and so on. By literate of course, I mean as in writing/books as we know them, naturally, iconography and symbolism can also convey meaning, too, and I believe that in many cultures art was not merely decorative or aesthetic in function, but also symbolic and carrying meaning – stories, lore and suchlike. In Mediaeval Europe, heraldry evolved as a way of indicating family, genealogy and heredity, too – most people, certainly the poor foot soldiers on a battlefield, would not have been literate at the time. I’ve heard it said that a church from the Middle Ages, is like a book in stone, everything has a meaning. It’s a really interesting subject.

    Bennathow
    /|\

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