- June 12, 2020 at 11:29 pm #11102
Onn Page #19 of Chapter one, Bobcat states:
“Within modern Paganism as it was in the past: each individual is encouraged to find their own specialist interests and skills, then to feed that insight back into the community as a whole”.
Bobcat gave that sort of encouragement during 2010’s Winter Solstice when she asked me if I would like to write an E-Book about the Sacred Triads of Knowledge & Wisdom, which resulted in my E-Book “A Treasury Of Druistic Triads”, which I then made available Free For All.
3X3June 17, 2020 at 11:31 am #11154david pooleParticipant
I have just finished reading Bobcat’s excellent book, it has provided me with a host of new ideas which I had never conceived of before. Firstly, I have just been reminded of Lyall Watson’s Supernature and Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring, both of which I should get around to reading and both of which deserve to be in the Order’s reading library, from what I can gather of them. Painism another new idea which I had not heard of before, this is the idea that life is about avoiding pain, either in suffering it or in inflicting it, which could from the basis of a whole path within itself or be a supplement for another path such as Druidry or Humanism, which are not quite the same thing by any means. I think that there is a certain nobility to this path, but of course it does not have any specific parameters apart from an it harm none, to paraphrase Wicca (there is no hint of hedonism contained within painism, which does not advocate free will in and of itself). Bobcast is very strong and determined on other values, she is a very moral person, perhaps a little dictatorial if you were to try to implement all of these philosophies; her book is heavy with guidelines, which may be intimidating to some although I found it all to be fascinating. Animal cruelty and exploitation and society’s role within this is discussed frequently and at length, more so than most other subjects. There is a certain amount of sadness and resolve to some of her accounts, such as in the splitting up of a partnership, which was very affecting for me. @3 x3 triads are a very important part of OBOD’s Bardic Grade course, I have recently noticed something similar to what you mentioned at the beginning with the triad of loyalty, courage and generosity, albeit worded somewhat differently. Note also a comparison with the heathen values of the Nine Noble Virtues; note also that I have encountered some scepticism over this list of virtues, with some people disputing that they are authentically based on history; I think that the Nine Noble Virtues may be a modern invention rather than an ancestral practice, therefore they are admirable as a code for living but not historically authentic and not part of our ancestor’s beliefs.June 17, 2020 at 11:46 am #11155
That’s an interesting review and there’s plenty of food for thought in there.
As for our ancestor’s values, it is a difficult one because they didn’t write anything down. When our ancestors were hunter-gatherers, I am sure that basic logic would determine that they respected the forest, the sea and the land because they knew that they could not survive without them. When our ancestors moved on to agriculture, they would have respected the land and looked after their livestock, again in full knowledge of how their lives depended on it. I think family bonds, friendship and the very basic idea of trying to be good to other people would have resonated just as much with them and that these are fairly universal. However, it’s with the emergence of more intensive agriculture, city states and the coming of iron that things seem to start going wrong: you start getting increased aggression, warrior societies, class/caste systems, slavery and oppression – materialism set in, the idea of owning the land, of “owning” people even. I think we need to go back to the earlier values and that we don’t necessarily need to find them carved in stone somewhere to get to them, nevertheless, in today’s world it is indeed a great challenge. I’m not saying that we should, or even could, return to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, but I do think modern society needs to give up its attachment to material wealth all the time; to my way of thinking, it’s telling that many spiritual traditions including the dharmic paths of the sadhus, the Christian monks and the holy ascetics from around the world usually give up or renounce everything before they go on their spiritual journey. I believe there’s a lesson in that for all of us.
/|\August 3, 2020 at 9:43 pm #11744
David Poole wrote:
Bobcat’s books are quite good I admit.
That is why I hold onto Bobcat’s Book ‘Living With Honour’ like as though it were Sacred Scripture like one would hold the Bible, the Quran or the Torah.
I did notice that she used the phrase, “Loyalty, Courage and Generosity” a lot in her Book on various types of Subjects which is what I wrote the 3X3 Triad Poem denoting the Various Philosophical Things that require Loyalty, Courage and Generosity”. But you have to have a lot of Courage to deal with the Self Centered Egotistical Jackasses that go about.
it’s with the emergence of more intensive agriculture, city states and the coming of iron that things seem to start going wrong: you start getting increased aggression, warrior societies, class/caste systems, slavery and oppression – materialism set in, the idea of owning the land, of “owning” people even.
That is Hypothesis that I can Agree With!
August 3, 2020 at 9:51 pm #11746
- This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Dave TheDruid-3X3.
A lot of the archaeology seems to suggest this too. The Bronze Age collapse in Europe and the Middle-East is quite interesting and then when you get to the Iron Age, you see things getting really nasty. At the height of the Minoan civilisation in Crete, there were few fortifications if any and an abundance of wealth. A series of natural disasters and external pressures seem to have brought down this great civilisation in a slow and brutal way. Of course, there are many factors involved here, but as soon as you start getting an idea of property and imagined rights over land through “right of conquests” etc., you can see where the problems may have started. In Britain too, there is a sudden change at one point in the archaeological records and more and more fortifications start being found where previously there had been none at all since the first human settlements.
/|\August 3, 2020 at 10:43 pm #11747
So maybe the Knowledge of Smelting Metals was the Forbidden Fruit that is Chronicled in Biblical Scriptures.
3X3August 4, 2020 at 7:29 am #11752
Well, it’s a motif that you find in a lot of mythologies and belief systems. In scripture you have the first age, of Adam, when God walked and talked with humans and people had enormous lifespans. In Sumerian mythologies you have the early kings who lived for thousands of years. In Egyptian mythology, the gods first ruled Egypt and the Greeks divided history into respective ages, commencing with the Golden Age when Kronos ruled the world and humans lived among the gods. The Greeks (Hesiod) and Romans (Ovid) had this idea of an Age of Iron, when people became greedy, warlike and impious. Although they may have been influenced by Greek, Roman and Christian thought, the Irish cycles of invasions also echo this cyclical and sequential division of time with civilisations or cultures rising and falling. I believe that numerous other mythologies around the world, including Aztec, Mayan, Indian dharmic and Buddhist traditions also have ideas of different ages and cycles of time. Indeed, Tolkien also used these motifs in his fantasy cosmology of Middle Earth. Interestingly enough, the Etruscans, who often get forgotten about in terms of the Classical Mediterranean civilisations, divided their history into ages or periods and, seemingly, even predicted their actual historical demise. As an aside, I’ve often wondered if there were not some cross-pollination of Etruscan and Celtic traditions as there are some tempting parallels between druids, Celtic religion and culture and that of the Etruscans, who neighboured the Celtic peoples, however, it would only ever be conjecture because we don’t know enough about the Etruscans.
Other ideas that are connected to these notions might be those of a great flood or disaster – flood myths are found the world over – and it is not too farfetched in my opinion to consider the possibility that there were some vague, ancient folk memories of real disasters that were then transmitted orally over millennia.
One theory about the Minoan civilisation is that it was brought to its knees after the eruption of Thera: the subsequent tsunami, volcanic cloud of ash, famine and destruction destabilised the civilisation completely – there is even evidence of cannibalism. Archaeologists have also found Minoan statues of gods and goddesses, including the famous Snake Goddess, that were deliberately smashed, their temples burnt down and desecrated, and it has been speculated that the people may have turned their anger on the gods who no longer protected them or that there were some kind of religious civil war. I reckon that the Atlantis myth may be connected to these events. In the mythology of the Brythonic peoples, legends of a city that sank under the sea because of its wickedness are also found in respective Cornish, Welsh and Breton traditions – probably the most well-known being that of Lyonesse.
So, there are a lot of commonalities between among numerous traditions and the Old Testament also contains allusions to these too.
If you’re interested in a psychological take on this, I’d recommend Julian Jaynes, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (1976) in which he argues that ancient people may have thought “bicamerally”, in a different way to modern humans, and this breakdown is reflected in mythology and writing. Jaynes is not without his critics, but the book is fascinating in itself even if you don’t agree with Jayne’s premise.
/|\August 16, 2020 at 4:13 am #11881
Awens to All:
Here is my 2012 Lughnasad 3X3 Triad of Wisdom and it is dedicated to Bobcat’s Book ‘Living With Honour’.
The First Triad of this one is the one that Bobcat uses a lot throughout the Book, so it has a Asterix in front of it.
So here it is and it is called “Bobcat Honour Triads”.
*Living With Honour Takes:
– And Generosity.
When One Is Honourable:
– One Is Respected,
– And Fondly Remembered.
Honour Is Lost When One:
– Takes Others For Granted,
– Takes Advantage Of Others,
– And Does Not Keep Promises.
One Should Be Loyal To:
– And To the Community.
It Takes Courage:
– To Be Truthfull,
– To Have Good Principle,
– And To Oppose Evil.
One Should Be Generous With Ones:
– And Forgiveness.
There Is No Such Thing As Fairness In:
– Employment Standards,
– And Personal Relationships.
Types Of Trusts:
– Financial Trusts,
– Private Trusts,
– And Professional Trusts.
When A Promise Is Broken:
– Feelings Are Hurt,
– Faith Is Lost,
– And Friendships Are Strained.
TheDruid-3X3August 27, 2020 at 9:33 pm #12013
David Poole wrote:
I think that Living With Honour is a very powerful book, one of the best which I have ever read so far and certainly worth tracking down.
I agree completely to the point that I hold that Book in much the same way as one would hold a Bible, or a Quran or even the Torah.
3X3September 23, 2020 at 3:44 am #12220
I Wish that Bobcat would come out of her Seclusion and start a YouTube Channel like the OBOD has with Philip Carr-Gomm has along with the New Chief Priestess.
I have enjoyed the few YouTubes that have she has appeared in and would like to see more.
3X3September 24, 2020 at 6:05 am #12225StartreeParticipant
I find it strange that the word awen is never mentioned in the bobcat book or the Myers book. I do see a lot of talk of christianity and philosophy, but to leave out a discussion on awen seems to be really weird. I feel the concept of awen is the one things that makes druids really different than the witches and other religions., the pre christian idea of awen is what gives life to druidry and makes it relevant in the 21st century. awen is much more than flowing inspiration, or what I think many think of as artistic inspiration. I am guilty of spending too much time on other religions and dealing with my own transformation Into a well baked druid. and yes, I have struggled with how the world religions fit into a druid way of life, but I also have found, that without awen, druidry does not make any sense to me. I know there is more to druidry than awen; however, without the concept of awen, I don’t feel we are on the right path as druids, and Taliesin thought that awen was important. it is easy to get caught up in philosophical battles, until we lose sight of what we were fighting for in the first place, as druids we have been fighting for a return to awen, a way to live our lives free before we were brainwashed and feeling destroyed by the major world religions that tried to crush the druids. awen is stronger than a belief system, because it is at the heart of the universe, and the heart of druidry. even the concept of life and death revolve around awen for a druid. it is in the understanding of awen that we have the courage to live fully, and to be fearless strong in the face of death. it is through the awen that we can find the oneness, just wondering at the saturated color of the moon when we are away from the bright lights, and out in the forest where we are closer to the awen, out in the groves, where the awen is strong****** Star treeSeptember 24, 2020 at 9:35 am #12226david pooleParticipant
Eimar has just announced a new series of videos called the fireside chats, I wonder what that is going to be like. Apparently she will be talking to different members of OBOD about different subjects. The first is tonight at 8pm and they will be weekly. I have seen the Kilkenny Druid Grove channel. Eimar is very good with a harp as well as an accomplished storyteller.September 26, 2020 at 10:22 pm #12238StartreeParticipant
why is bobcat talking about the christian heaven in her book. what does that have to do with druidry? I mean I am sure christians go to a christian heaven where it looks like the suburbs and there are lots of Mercedes Benz and suvs. and the grass is always chemical green, and everyone dresses like the 50s. and everyone works for the god corporation, and everyone has a swimming pool, and there are lots of cocktail parties. you go to the place you deserve. I plan to go to tir na nog where there is no goddam rap music, and plenty of Celtic gals, and cool bothies to live in and everyone can go horse back ridding, and lots of trees, and people respect nature, and kindness is everywhere, and we all have organic gardens, and you can grow your own weed, and you evil pediophiles out there, you are going to hell. I just feel to many druids are hung up on getting over christianity, but also remember, druid is pre christian, and druids take responsibility for our actions. Christianity is all about getting out of sin, and is all about how sinners pay a price. druidry is about taking responsibility for your own actions and understanding the law of the returning tide. also, does anyone know a cool welsh or Cornish word for karma. Karma is just too eastern for me. I need a Celtic word for Karma.
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