Bobcat’s Book ‘Living With Honor’

The British Druid Order Forums BDO Public Forum Bobcat’s Book ‘Living With Honor’

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  • #11018
    Dave TheDruid-3X3
    Participant

    Awens to All:

    I got this Book in 2010 when it was first Published.

    For several years, I had been contemplating writing such a Book but those plans got shelved when I read Bobcat’s Living With Honor Book.

    One of the first things she goes over is how that Honor taking Loyalty, Generosity and Courage. I found that Triad repeated through the Book so many times that I composed the following 3X3 Triad Poem based on what I read:

    2011 Lughnsasad Of Wisdom On Bobcat’s Book ‘Living With Honour’:

    *Living With Honour Takes:
    – Loyalty,
    – Courage,
    – And Generosity.

    Living With Peace Takes:
    – Loyalty,
    – Courage,
    – And Generosity.

    Living With Love Takes:
    – Loyalty,
    – Courage,
    – And Generosity.

    ——————————————————————-

    Living With Tranquility Takes:
    – Loyalty,
    – Courage,
    – And Generosity.

    Living With Harmony Takes:
    – Loyalty,
    – Courage,
    – And Generosity.

    Living With Respect Takes:
    – Loyalty,
    – Courage,
    – And Generosity.

    ——————————————————————-

    Living With Wisdom Takes:
    – Loyalty,
    – Courage,
    – And Generosity.

    Living With Acceptance Takes:
    – Loyalty,
    – Courage,
    – And Generosity.

    Living With Others:
    – Loyalty,
    – Courage,
    – And Generosity.

    * – Denotes Bobcat’s Original Triad.

    One of the things that I got from the Book was that there is no such thing as Fairness in Nature and that would explain a lot of the Behaviors of not just Humanity abut also all other Lifeforms in Earth.

    Here are a couple of Good Quotes that I have made comment on:

    From Page #4:
    “Too often, I would attend Pagan events to find overeating, heavy drinking, cigarette smoking individuals, bitching, expressing no more care for the world than the mundane crowd in a shopping mall”

    Me too. I got tired of that sort of thing at about last December and decided to go into a Meditative Retreat where I have found the Philosophies of the Great Buddha which meshes well with my Druidistic Philosophies.

    Then Bobcat gives some really good personal Advice on Page #5:
    “Clearly, where any relationship breaks down, the sesult is a collapse in respect, but to respond by demanding the relationship improves is seldom helpful”

    That is Good Advice that I will Live by a bit more Closely from now on.

    There is a lot more Good Words of Wisdom in Living With Honor has.

    Has anyone of rest of you read it as well?

    TheDruid-3X3

    #11019
    Spellcaster
    Participant

    Then Bobcat gives some really good personal Advice on Page #5:
    “Clearly, where any relationship breaks down, the sesult is a collapse in respect, but to respond by demanding the relationship improves is seldom helpful”

    I feel like all love is not expecting things in return, no quid pro quo, but lots of people think it is all about quid pro quo, we need mogees, on this site, If you are looking for the quid pro quo love, you just are never going to find it. You have to love with out expecting things in return.

    One of the things that I got from the Book was that there is no such thing as Fairness in Nature and that would explain a lot of the Behaviors of not just Humanity abut also all other Lifeforms in Earth.

    I disagree with this one, I saw a cat rip a head off a beautiful baby squirrel the other day, and it was done quickly, and the cat was hungry. This was a wild cat, and he did not do it for fun, or toying around with the baby squirrel, he did it because he was hungry, just like we pick beans or kill a chicken when we need food, but it would be better to be a vegetarian if possible. I am working on that one. So, I actually think that nature is pretty fair, it is the humans who are not fair, when we go hunting just for the sport of it. And if the hawks didn’t thin out the other sick and old animals things would not work in the environment. without the Kittys, we would be overrun with ratty rats. Nature has a natural balance, and the only ones who don’t respect that are humans. I blame this all on the Bible, and christians, who think animals have no souls. I know that animals have souls and it is just weird that people who are christians think that only humans have souls. So I disagree with the chieftess on this one, but I also have not read the book because I find these books to be a bit too self help. However, keep reading and keep us posted on the good bits, the tasty treats, you find in this 3×3, And it is grand that you went and hung out with the buddhist and not christian indoctrination summer camp. Oh, here is one, I asked a christian why is Jesus a man and a god at the same time, and the answer is always, “It is a spiritual mystery, and know one knows,” So that is the answer to first question on the what do christian’s believe test.

    “Too often, I would attend Pagan events to find overeating, heavy drinking, cigarette smoking individuals, bitching, expressing no more care for the world than the mundane crowd in a shopping mall”

    Yeah, I get this one, but a lot of Neo pagans are in it just for the party, and my feeling is it is okay to have a good time and have a fun time. Also, who knows, maybe, some real Celtic druidry will rub off on them and change them. As long as everyone is kind I am fine with it. and remember the festivals also bring a lot of new members into the tribes of druids, and I am all for that. I use to get really mad at the Neo-pagans, but now I just accept them for who they are and love them and would like to share a cannabis chocolate cake with them, and I hope someone remembers to bring the skim milk. I don’t drink or smoke myself, but I will treat myself to some cannabis cookies. And I think cannabis can help me get in touch with the otherwold, and makes me more peaceful, and still. Best Greyfalcon

    #11020
    david poole
    Participant

    Kill or b killed is a basic rule of survival. I think that this applies particularly within nature, where there are no principles and no moralising. Animals simply do what they have to do to survive, you can’t really blame them for that. As Greyfalcon points out, there is a reason for their savagery, nature keeps itself in balance.

    #11022
    Dowrgi
    Participant

    One of the things that I got from the Book was that there is no such thing as Fairness in Nature and that would explain a lot of the Behaviors of not just Humanity abut also all other Lifeforms in Earth.

    This is an interesting, philosophical point of view. The way I see it, I suppose, is that fairness is a human construct, so it would be foolish of us to assume that non-human entities/organisms or abstract concepts have any notion of what we call fairness. Moreover, I would agree with David that nature is about balance, and it’s something that we humans may yet have to learn (again). Nature will always find its own balance – to paraphrase Jurassic Park: life will find a way; whether that balance includes us as a species depends very much on whether we can adjust to nature. Perhaps we shouldn’t talk about our saving the world, but rather the world saving us (from ourselves) and the only way to do that is reattune ourselves to the planet that keeps us alive, the only one we’ve got.

    Bennathow
    /|\

    #11029
    Spellcaster
    Participant

    The way I see it, I suppose, is that fairness is a human construct, so it would be foolish of us to assume that non-human entities/organisms or abstract concepts have any notion of what we call fairness

    .

    See, I see it differently Dowrgi, I think a lot of animals are very very intelligent and have feelings. I have a cat that lives around my bothy and I have heard it sing a ten minute song, yes with refrains, and it was beautiful. I have also met some very intelligent dogs, that are full of love and do understand what humans are thinking and feeling. I think you would really like the book Sacred animals, by the toad. I acknowledge your point of view and see as how a philosopher could see it, but I am just offering an alternative view. I feel we as humans have greatly misunderstood how intelligent animals are and how much feeling they have. I once had to cut down some bushes in front of the house and a robin mom lost her nest. She and her husband Mr. Robin were very upset, and Mr. Robin kept throwing himself against the front door of the house and screaming, why, why, why , why, why, why, why, why, why. He was very upset, and birds, and dogs, and cats and hedgehogs, and pigs, horses, and cows, and snakes, and fishes, and bees, all have feelings, and friends. So from a druid point of view, all things are alive and conscious, and that means that they have feelings and the ability to love. So, I respectfully disagree with you on this one, call me foolish, but I do believe animals have the ability to feel emotions and I also think they know what is fair and what is not. I don’t think animals kill in an unfair way. Best William

    #11032
    Dowrgi
    Participant

    That animals can have “emotions” of fear, affection, loyalty, anger, happiness and sadness is not being questioned, but I think there is an issue with what we humans would call fairness or a sense of justice. Animals cannot define their niche in the same way that humans are able to, and for that reason they have to follow the laws of nature, and those are laws of survival. If we start attributing human concepts such as fairness or justice to animals, we immediately run into problems with what different animals species actually do, like, for example, when a male lion kills the lion cubs that aren’t his own because he wants to establish himself as the new alpha male in the pride. If we start attributing human concepts like fairness to animals, then we would be forced to judge the lion as being a “bad lion”, but the lion is just doing what lions have evolved to do.

    #11033
    Spellcaster
    Participant

    I understand what you are saying, Dowrgi, and the idea of a human construct is a good idea. And I also think if a lion kills baby cubs it is a bad lion, and needs therapy. But I get what you are saying, and I just look at it a different way. Animals do have a lot of instinctual personality traits, and we need to meet the lions on their terms not ours, see it from the lions construct. I am really just making the point that animals are intelligent, some more than others, and that animals have spirits. I am not saying you don’t have a good point, because you do. There are many ways to look at a lion, and the best is from a safe distance where you won’t become lunch. Best William

    #11034
    Dowrgi
    Participant

    Well, I suppose a lion might seek out help if he wasn’t feline good. 😀

    On a more serious note, don’t get me wrong, I do think that all living, sentient beings have a soul or spirit. I’m just cautious about anthropomorphising them and attributing human moral constructs to them because it gets us bogged down in a moral and ethical quagmire if we try to. That behaviour of male lions I mentioned is quite typical of lions – that’s what lions do, moreover, the same behaviour has also been scientifically documented in our nearest relatives, gorillas and chimpanzees, as well as in dolphins – nature isn’t cuddly.

    I would agree, probably the best way to view a lion would indeed be from a safe distance.

    #11035
    Spellcaster
    Participant

    Again Dowrgi, I think you have some really good ideas, and you have probably thought about this more than I have. I just kind of go on feeling and spiritual encounters I have had. But you are right about the human moral constructs, and I do think animals have their own ways of thinking and living and we should not try to impose our way of thinking on them. But could an animal still have a sense of right and wrong? I mean they do seem to leave things alone that don’t mess with them. But then take a crocodile, and I mean that is just a killing a machine. There was a girl who went on a keelboat sailing in Australia. The girl had gone to my college in Lynchburg Va. She went swimming in a lagoon and got up on some rocks, when a crocodile came swimming into the lagoon. Everyone on the boat told her to stay put at the safety of being on the rocks, but she tried to make a swim for the sail boat, and did not out swim the Crocodile. The Crocodile caught up with her easily and dragged her under. They found the girl three days later under a log. The Australians did not go and try to kill the crocodile because they felt that the crocodile was doing what a crocodile does and it was no fault of the crocodile. So the crocodile got to live. So somebody made a judgement about fairness there. And in Hawaii a surfer girl got her arm taken off by a great white shark. And the people all got in their boats and went out and killed the great white. So somebody made a judgement about what is fair. Therefore, could fairness be based on nothing more than what a group of people consider fair? Is what is fair for a crocodile, fair for a great white? I mean animals may be all instinctual, but they could be looking at fairness differently. And then if you add in spirit, and I am talking more of a group spirit, like the spirit of trees, or the spirit of wolves, the wolf spirit who looks over all wolves, then you get a new layer of questions. And you have to add in that some animals may be sick, or very territorial, more so than other animals of the same species, or some animals could just be mad and take out their feeling on other animals like humans do. And also, in all true sense, humans are animals, and all animals are our cousins. I think we often forget that we are animals too. Yes we have a spirit, and most druids believe in reincarnation, but not all. I can come to the conclusion that we need to respect animals for themselves and not impose our concept of fairness on them. And I think that is what you are saying.
    I know that I have rambled on enough about this, but it is kind of interesting to explore. Best William

    #11038
    Spellcaster
    Participant

    thinking some more about the shark, and the girl who lost her arm surfing in Hawaii, I would say that the native Hawaii people, who are very spiritual, always say a prayer of honor to the shark spirit before they go surfing. And they feel that this prayer, communication, with the shark spirit protects them from shark bite. Now, the little surfer girl did not say any prayer or honor the spirit of the shark before she jumped into the sharks home, the sea. And I think that she would not have gotten bit and lost her arm, if she had been more respectful to the the great shark spirit. So, how does that play out with fairness. I think people would find the world more fair if they would respect the otherworld more. When we lose contact with the Celtic otherworld, we lose contact with a part of ourselves. the Hawaii Kahunas are very spiritual and walk through the world with great reverence for nature, which is something we should as druids be doing. So what is fair could have a lot to do with balance and respect, and not thinking that we as humans own the world, for we are just one of many races and brothers here. Do we have respect for the trees and the land? Also, just think about the whole idea of private property. Does anyone really own the earth. I think not. We are all just guests here. And a falcon has as much right to be here as a dog or a turtle or a toad. Life is only fair if we understand the spiritual part of life and honor the Celtic Otherworld. So I think nature is fair. I don’t see how a world run by robots could ever be fair. And don’t ask me where that came from, just popped into my head, probably placed there by the robots. Most of the stuff that is unfair comes from stupidity or greed. Is it fair that a few people control most of the money in the world? No. Is it fair that I get so much crap for being a druid and believing in the Celtic otherworld, no. Is it fair that even though I have seen and been on UFOs and many other people have too, that we are still told that UFOs don’t exist. no. I hope that soon people will but the same effort into demonstrating against global warming that they are putting into the current demonstrations against police misconduct. If people could put forth that kind of effort to save the environment, we might still have a chance for survival on this planet. And my feeling is that karma is real, and no body ever really gets away with any bad things they do, and that the universe is a fair place. I even think animals have to answer to karma. oh yeah, we humans are animals also. so walk with respect for nature like the kahunas do, my fellow druids. best Greyfalcon

    #11040
    Dave TheDruid-3X3
    Participant

    Chapter Two is called Natural Paganism and in the part called Autonomy, she says on page #37 that to Cherish ALL Life is Restrictive, and that disallowing the Consumption of Nature is limiting in our ability to have Wealth and Power, which is something People have taken Dominion over. That comment made me think of my essay where I rewrite Genesis 1, verses 26 to 31.

    Further down the page, she points out how the Victims of Hurricane Katrina did loads of Blame Gaming about what happened to them when it is in reality all down to the Natural Processes of Nature. And I like the way she used the word “Nature”, and not the metaphor “Mother Nature”. That shows that she revers to Nature as being a united form of both Female and Male Forms of Deity.

    In the part called “Anarchy and Heresy”, she gives the exact definition of Heresy, which is something I have tried to research out about several times in the Past, but failed to find the exact Definition that I was looking for. According to Bobcat, it is from the Greek “Haireomai”, which means to Choose. The word “Hairesis” is the Choices we make in regards to our personal Beliefs. It also refers to being able to Question as being something critical for our being able to make sound Decisions and Choices in regards to our Personal Belief Systems.

    There are several parts when Bobcat points out ways that one then fails to be Pagan. One of them is Behaving in a certain ways simplay because other do is Not Pagan. I have tried that a few times in my time as being a Paganistic Druid and have ended up getting loads of grief, so I have concluded that one does have to Behave in a Sociable Fashion in order to get along. I have found that if you have trouble with that, then it is best to concider practising your Paganism as a Solitary (which I pretty much in doing at the moment).

    3X3

    #11043
    Greywolf
    Participant

    For pagan ethics drawn from early sources, see Brendan Myers excellent book, ‘The Other Side of Virtue: Where our virtues really come from, what they really mean, and where they might be taking us’ (O Books, 2008). Brendan is a Pagan Druid who has a PhD in philosophy. He’s an extremely good writer who confronts the deepest questions about life, death, the universe and our relationships with them from a solid Pagan perspective and an equally solid academic footing. His ‘The Earth, The Gods and the Soul: A History of Pagan Philosophy from the Iron Age to the 21st Century’ (Moon Books, 2013) is equally excellent.
    Many blessings,
    Greywolf /|\

    #11055
    Dave TheDruid-3X3
    Participant

    Never heard of Brendan Myers.

    I might look up what he is about.

    3X3

    #11070
    Dowrgi
    Participant

    Brendan Myers is a Canadian university professor who currently works at Heritage College in Gatineau, Quebec.

    Here’s his website: http://www.brendanmyers.net/

    #11071
    Dowrgi
    Participant

    Thank you Greywolf.

    I’ll add these titles and references to our Bookshelf thread in the Bardic Student Support Forum.

    Bennathow
    /|\

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