British Druid Order

[initpaul]

Hi,

showing my ignorance...

What is Gorseddau?



Thanks

Paul

[initpaul]

Hi,

showing my ignorance...

What is Gorseddau?



Thanks

Paul

Well I found this on msn search:

"Society of Welsh bards founded 1792 by the Glamorgan bard Iolo Morganwg (1747–1826). It was devised to replace a long-defunct medieval order of the same name. Iolo merged the Gorsedd ceremonial with the eisteddfod in Carmarthen 1819.

The present-day Gorsedd forms an integral and influential part of the organization of the National Eisteddfod of Wales, in that most of the National Eisteddfod Court or governing body are members of the Gorsedd. The Gorsedd is responsible for administering and conducting the rich and colourful bardic ceremonial of the Eisteddfod, which has developed into a picturesque and very popular national pageant."

http://encyclopedia.farlex.com/Gorseddau

Is this accurate?

[bish]

Apart from the pageantry of the Welsh Eistedfodd the term Gorsedd (plural Gorseddau) refers to meetings, generally public, of Druids and others for ritual and performance purposes. Gorsedd means throne, I believe, in Welsh and this is the actual or philosophical seat about which Bardic performances, rituals, initiations and handfastings are carried out. There are now many Gorseddau coming together regularly at such places as Avebury, Uffington, Stonehenge, Wilmington...

[initpaul]

Apart from the pageantry of the Welsh Eistedfodd the term Gorsedd (plural Gorseddau) refers to meetings, generally public, of Druids and others for ritual and performance purposes. Gorsedd means throne, I believe, in Welsh and this is the actual or philosophical seat about which Bardic performances, rituals, initiations and handfastings are carried out. There are now many Gorseddau coming together regularly at such places as Avebury, Uffington, Stonehenge, Wilmington...

Thanks for the info. Just to double check my Welsh phrases, double-d is pronounced th? Is that correct?

[Greywolf]

Yep, that's pretty well it, apart from to note that the 'th' sound of Welsh 'dd' is pronounced as in 'the' and not as in 'thin.'
The msn entry about the Gorsedd is accurate as far as the Welsh Gorsedd is concerned. Back in the early 1990s, the BDO was responsible for seeding a number of Gorseddau at Avebury, Stonehenge, Seattle and elsewhere that are only connected to the Welsh Gorsedd in that we also drew some of our inspiration from Iolo Morganwg. Otherwise, the Gorseddau we founded are independent and, unlike the Welsh Gorsedd, ours are largely pagan although generally open to people of all faiths or none. For more on our Gorseddau, check out http://www.druidry.co.uk/bdogorseddau.html
Blessings,
Greywolf /|\

[initpaul]

Thankyou I am checking the link out now.

[Greywolf]

On the May Day weekend I looked in on both the Avebury Gorseddau, the 'Free and Open' Gorsedd of Bards of Caer Abiri that meets on Saturdays and the Gorsedd of Bards of Caer Abiri (which is also free and open but doesn't like to brag about it ) that meets on Sundays. It was the first time I'd been to Avebury for a Gorsedd celebration for a few years. Both events were attended by about 45 people. It was nostalgic for me and also a little sad. Before the Gorsedd split in two in the late 1990s to the dismal sound of clashing egos, we would have expected that many people on a freezing cold, rainy day in midwinter. On a warm, sunny day in springtime, we'd have expected 200 or more. When things got ugly in the 90s, most of those who used to attend regularly simply turned away in sorrow and never returned .
Such is the damage a few troubled minds can cause. Clearly the ceremonies themselves meant nothing to them. Each one began with a greeting at the southern entrance in which the Guardian said: "All who come here are welcome, but thrice blessed are those who come in peace, with reverence and love." The opening of the circle always began with calls for peace at each of the four quarters. We all joined hands and together said "We swear by peace and love to stand, heart to heart and hand in hand. Mark, O Spirit(s), and hear us now, confirming this, our sacred vow." It still beggars belief that anyone could take part in a ceremony where such words are spoken, even joining in speaking them, and then go on to disrupt the rest of the ceremony with angry outbursts and physical violence.
Things have also changed in that, when the celebrations began in 1993, they were avowedly multi-faith. Christians, Bah'ai and Buddhists joined hands with Wiccans, Druids and Heathens, plus the occasional Native American or Australian Aboriginal and swore the oath of peace in a real community of spirit. Now the celebrations seem purely Pagan. As such, they seem to me to have lost part of what made them special.
To be honest, there are times when I wish I had never started them at all. Before 1993, Avebury was known to few in the Pagan community and cared about by fewer. By 1995 it was becoming Pagan central, largely due to the rapidly spreading fame of the Gorsedd. The reason what we were doing caught on so quickly and so strongly was partly down to the simple fact that large, open, public Pagan-run gatherings were then as rare as hens' teeth. That and the fact that Avebury is a very magical place and one with far fewer access problems than Stonehenge . Unfortunately, a part of the Pagan presence attracted to Avebury by the Gorsedd chose to mark the festivals as much with drunken aggression as with ritual celebration . This has caused problems for the site curators, the police and the residents of the village that nestles within the henge. It goes without saying that causing such problems within a place I love so deeply was diametrically opposed to the original intentions of the Gorsedd, which were to bring people together in peace and harmony.
But then I think of what so many people have told me about how much the Gorsedd has meant to them. It genuinely has changed people's lives and brought healing to broken souls . As with so much in life, it comes down to a question of whether the good outweighs the bad. For me, having witnessed both the worst of the bad and the best of the good at Avebury, the Gorsedd is still too close to call.
Having said that, the celebration coordinated by Morgan on the Sunday of the May weekend was a fine and enjoyable one including, I was pleased to note, bardic initiations. It was good to hear words spoken at the first Gorsedd 18 years ago still sounding in the sacred circle . Morgan has done well to maintain as much as could be held of the original spirit of the Gorsedd given the changed circumstances following the split of the 1990s, and the celebrations she coordinates are certainly worthy of support.
The Saturday ceremony that preceded it was a looser, slightly more boisterous affair, but seemed to satisfy those who attended.
One thing that would not have happened in the 90s was that there were at least two other groups who took up stations within the henge during our rite on the Sunday. One of these brought chairs and set themselves up in the centre of the South Inner Circle where Gorsedd rites are commonly held. This meant that our rite was focused around the Ring Stone that stands between the inner and outer circles near the Southern entrance. This too may be a side-effect of the widespread attention drawn to Avebury by the Gorsedd.
For myself, having composed the original Gorsedd rite, given it its name and set its form in the early years of its existence, my hope was always that others would take on the running of it. It was always the Gorsedd, not my Gorsedd. Nevertheless, since mine was the original vision that set it rolling, blessed by the spirits of the place, I can't help but retain an interest in its destiny. So, though it still raises very mixed emotions for me, I'll be back.
Greywolf /|\

[Ayana Owl]

I remember the Gorsedd when you and Bobcat ran them together; I was a regular attendee.

The BDO was my first experience of Druidry, at what I believe was the first Spirit Camp, held at Blacklands Farm Camp site in Calne, at the Autumn Equinox of either '95 or '96, (sorry, aging brain), and although not currently a BDO member, I still remember that Camp with great fondness.

I was saddened when the BDO went into hibernation, but I understood the reasons, I was glad when it was resurrected, and began attending again, until ill-health put and end to driving.

I'm hoping that soon I may have a means of transport again (via my son), and may hopefully stagger back into the Circle in the near future.

Cheers, Ayana

[Seannachaidh]

Violence... sheesh

I only go to public events that have public funding, or require local government permissions to run. There is always a police presence, mostly directing traffic away from the closed streets and people into the queues, but seeing them in the background keeps people in order, I think. I've never seen any trouble.

I like the 15,000 strong audiences for the bigger ones like Beltane and Midwinter in particular. We are very lucky, with pagan festivals being seen as theatrical and a draw to tourism, and so to be encouraged. They tend to be well run and safe, if generic and eclectic. A few years where they were stopped due to people littering badly made them more organised, with a small fee charged now for the clean up, but that's been the worst problem.

They also tend to be held on Saturdays, so the actual day of most festivals is left free for private ceremonies. So it matters less to me that there is no-one leading us in prayers or deeper ceremonies at these events, knowing there will be a private ritual elsewhere on the actual day. At the end of the theatrics, I do see a lot of smaller groups that have attended split off to perform their own ceremonies and rituals, though. I fulfill my Derma by keeping stories alive at this point with a storytelling session, which often attracts bystanders. I'd feel a bit distracted by tourist bystanders if I was doing a ritual, I think, so it works well for me.

I don't miss a stone circle either, even though I feel more connected to the Nine Maidens, who need no sophistry to connect them with the stone circle building era. Most of the pagans at these events know and feel the sacred landscape around about. To some just there for the theatrics, it's just a public park, to the rest of us we know it's history as a fairy hill.

I do wonder whether courses in Druidry have a section on what I've heard called "becoming inflated". Also "Hiving off" into new groups - is that dealt with in a way that lets people feel they can go to one or another without animosity when a group splits? Are there ceremonies for celebrating it as an event? Inaugurations, namings, perhaps both choosing new names during the split? I know forming a new grove has ceremonies - but perhaps groves splitting in two should have seperate ones? Dealing with endings as natural when one or another doesn't thrive should be addressed, so you can be sad but not bitter. Perhaps druid courses have this already? I dunno. I did the bardic grade of the OBOD but found it not to my taste, so didnt get that far, maybe.

[Ysgawen]

Just a note on the pronunciation issue, a lot of people don't know that au in Welsh is pronounced "eye". So the correct pronunciation is gorseth eye not gorseth ow.